Obviously we all want to pursue, know and meditate on Gods word and follow his ways as in psalm 119 so It’s good to see the zeal in trying to understand this passage. (Wilson 1991:172), [29] Other New Testament women who were possibly house church leaders include Euodia and Syntyche (Phil. If Abigail did despise her husband it was because he was a brutish headstrong fool, as the text and his name Nabal indicates (1 Sam. Thank-you, whoever wrote these books. International Standard Version the women must keep silent in the churches. New comments cannot be ⦠You’re correct when you say, “The verse does not say it is a shame for women to speak in church IF x or IF y.” But you are not correct when you say, “It simply states that it is a ‘shame’ for them to speak at all.” There are no words in verse 35 that mean “at all.” This is your interpretation (contra 1 Cor. 11:5)? They were added some time later by a different hand. If boys and girls alike need male role models in their lives to help them become good men and women, then it only makes sense that God should be depicted in male terms. 16:1-2), Junia (Rom 16:7), and some of the other women mentioned in Romans 16 were possibly church leaders also. [I have written more about New Testament Women Church Leaders here. Consequently, I am unconvinced that these verses were handcrafted by an infallible being. 6 comments. Anyway, when it’s all said and done, why would Paul with concerned with the appearance of the heads or hair of men and women if they were supposedly praying and prophesying outside of a gathering of believers (cf. Keep up the great work! We know it is highly unlikely since no scribe of any surviving manuscript (and there are thousands) of any of Paul's letters ever did anything like this in any other passage of Paul's letters. There is no mention of a gender hierarchy in Genesis 2. Mary and the Women in Matthew’s Genealogy of Jesus, Don Carson and Tim Keller on “I Do Not Permit a Woman to Teach”. The thing is, churches (that is, gatherings of Christians) usually met in homes. I was looking into other interpretations of these verses and ran across someone who believes âthe lawâ in 1 Corinthians 14: 34 may refer to Numbers 30, as well as the creation order. Archived. Those people don’t understand, if that was God’s will for women, it was His will for men also since people, (but not God) are a respecter of gender. The Genesis 2 story is remarkable, and the message of that story is that the first couple were compatible and equal. More on Abigail here. Thankfully the Scriptures say wonderful things about women. I do not believe we should be taking our cues for living from the consequences of the fall or from the decree of a pagan king. Rather, Genesis 1:26-28 tells us that humanity, male and female, have the same status, the same authorisation (or authority), and the same purpose. Thankfully, very few suggest that Numbers 30 has anything to do with it. https://margmowczko.com/equality-and-gender-issues/portrayal-of-women-and-biblical-inspiration/. But if a wife did ask her husband a question during a meeting and he didn’t know the answer, that would be super awkward. Grudem seems disingenuous when he criticises those who dismiss some Bible verses as interpolations. Not all women were culturally inferior, however,. Andreas Kostenberger: On Writing a New Theology Text. report. Copyright © 2020 HarperCollins Publishers. Lastly, the fact that the command is repeated shows it is important. This is because many of the Western witnesses have these verses after v. 40, while the rest of the tradition retains them here. Moreover, Payneâs date for the proposed interpolation strains credulity.”. ~ But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient … (King James Bible). Corinthian women, with their freer mood inclined towards emancipation (comp. Elizabeth on November 16, 2019 at 2:37 pm . There is no doubt about that. Her âsorrowsâ and âsighsâ were indeed multiplied (Gen 4:8 cf Gen.3:16a). Hi Dan, PhDs take a lot of work, and a lot of sitting still. I’ve written about Priscilla and Aquila’s house church here. God bless you! But let me add that God isn’t just spoken of in masculine terms in the Bible. I’m glad my work has been helpful to you. The Bible typically refers to childbirth as a difficult, painful and precarious experience. Philip B. Payne, "MS. 88 as Evidence for a Text Without 1 Cor 14.34-5," NTS 44 (1998) 152-58, includes a full page photograph of this passage in MS 88 and a close-up photograph showing its details. Kudos Marg! I was a Muslim. 92% Upvoted. At a time when physical strength was necessary for survival, men had more power and authority, and they might be more aware of events (good or bad) happening outside of the home than his wife whose primary role was to have children and care for them. Is interpolation of 1 Cor 14:34-35 a minority view? I was reading through this thread, and I was wondering if maybe Paul could be correct about 1 Corinthians 11:2-16 not requiring a church context. Is this where the idea of womanly silence and submission and “the law” came from? [20] Verses 34-35 may have started out as someoneâs margin notes in a very early text, which a copyist then later incorporated into the body of Paulâs letter when making new copies of 1 Corinthians. Importantly, Paul does not just tell the Corinthian women to be silent in 1 Corinthians 14. In this way, Paul’s teachings are quite consistent in 1 Corinthians 14 and 1 Timothy 2: in both cases he is concerned to preserve male leadership in the teaching and governing of the church.” (Chapter 47, page 939). Part V, Variants: 1 Jn 5:7-8 and Matt 21:29-31: Is 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 an interpolation? (1 Cor 14:34-35) According to a study now available at Evangelical Textual Criticism, Paul did not write those words. In fact, if you skip over verses 33b-35, and go straight from verse 33a to verse 36, the passage flows and makes good sense. Love your articles ð I looked up the link to the HonorShame website, and I found an article about Paulâs honor ethic in 1 Corinthians. I don’t know how to post links, again, not a very technical girl. Both men and women are God’s image-bearers. This thread is archived. Whenever believers got together for fellowship, for communion, for worship, for teaching, for mission strategising, or to listen to an apostle or their representative when they were in town, it was church. As you’ve stated, Numbers 30 is all about vows. For what it’s worth, myself and many other scholars do not believe that Bible teaches eternal torment. God does not add a clause that says that this punishment applies to all women. I disagree with him, however, that female silence is a general rule. I too, have seen many women just passively sitting back and accepting “2nd place” or settling for “2nd best” and using it as justification for being obedient to God’s will. [I have written about 1 Timothy 2:12 here. Perhaps this article may be useful: https://margmowczko.com/gender-roles-gendered-activities-in-the-old-testament/, I looked up commentaries that mention 1 Corinthians 14:34 and Numbers 30 together and found this gem in The Pulpit Commentary: I believe that if women are given the gift of preaching, they should definitely use it, but only to a certain extent. I’ve written about this here: https://margmowczko.com/paul-james-jesus-hell-gehenna/ (In honour-shame societies, such as in Roman Corinth, honour was especially the province of men, and a woman’s behaviour could negatively affect his honour and bring disgrace.). Let your women, &c. â The last clause of the preceding verse is by some critics, and among the rest Bishop Pearce, joined with this, so as to make this sense; as in all the churches of the saints, let your women keep silence in the churches, namely, of Achaia. I can’t believe in a god that lets others suffer in eternal torment, I can’t believe in religions that so obviously hurt women and cast aside people who disbelieve. Close. The reason is the Torah is written and therefore read. 25:3, 25). Yes, women can be influential. (This “side” is traditionally called a “rib” but the Hebrew and Greek does not usually mean “rib.”). 1 Corinthians 11 is about appropriate behaviour during worship in church meetings. These myths exist only within the corrupted minds of those who choose to believe lies instead of truth. https://margmowczko.com/nympha-house-church-colossians-415/. I do believe that if God has given the gift of preaching to a girl, then he intended her to use that gift, just not in that way. Male-rule is a consequence of the fall, and many regulations in the Hebrew Bible were concessions to the fallen culture. 14:34ff as I’ve discussed in my article. Virtually all other manuscripts put these two verses after 1 Cor 14:33. I think most of the negative comments are given by people who don’t actually understand what egalitarians believe, and they don’t realise that Christian egalitarianism, or mutuality, has a sound biblical basis. Heartbreaking! Philipâs daughters (Acts 21:9), Phoebe (Rom. If you haven’t done so already, I think you should earn your Ph.D. and teach at a college or seminary. 1 Peter 3:1-2 Wives, in the same way submit yourselves to your own husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. Sorry but there is no Nympha in Col 4:15 it said Nymphas and the church which is in HIS house. Paul tells three groups of people to be silent in 1 Corinthians 14:28ff and the reason was that their speech was unruly and was causing meetings to become disorderly. Sadly, that’s how society worked back then. I think any woman who has a deep personal relationship with God Himself in her own spiritual life would look to God Himself for answers about these things and not priests or even the Pope (with all due respect.) Thanks….. The wife would bring shame to her husband. The apparent contradiction with 1 Corinthians 11:5 only exists when one views 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 as absolute statement ("⦠they are not permitted to speak;â¦") without any qualification. The verse does not say it is a shame for women to speak in church IF x or IF y. 11:2-16, and unruly and unedifying speech in 1 Cor. And none of this has to do with vows or with the created order. If a woman, asks a basic question that her husband SHOULD have obviously been able to answer, then she opens him up to ridicule by other church members. 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 in a Nutshell 3:28). John Mark’s mother’s house, Lydia’s house, Nympha’s house, Aquila and Priscilla’s house, and probably Stephanus’s and Phoebe’s houses, etc, were the home bases of house churches. A man might be in a better position to see that his daughterâs or wifeâs vow might be detrimental, perhaps even dangerous, to the woman or to the family as a whole. The paper I will read at the ETS Annual Meeting at 8:30 AM, Thursday Nov. 19 in the Waterbury Ballroom on the 2nd floor of the Sheraton will establish with conclusive statistical evidence that the distigmai in Codex Vaticanus are marks of textual variants. Here is a short article about Paul and women: https://margmowczko.com/paul-and-women-in-a-nutshell/. He indicates that the women wanted, literally, “to learn.” I suggest some women were asking too many basic, nuisance questions. ” Hello. For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. Other, more reliable, texts use the present middle/passive imperative verb (3rd person plural). HupotassÅ has a broader range of meanings other than just âsubmit” and “subordinate”. I found your article very helpful in understanding its context and being able to come to terms that God thinks highly of women even in difficult passages like these when my first reaction to reading them is the opposite. 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 is sandwiched between verses (33,40) that forbid confusion and disorder. Women asking basic questions could embarrass their husbands in a number of ways. Paul tells two other groups to be silent too. 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 Is an Interpolation January 19, 2010 8:01 am / 5 Comments on 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 Is an Interpolation Women should be silent in the churches. Interestingly, the same author also admits “it is fair to interpret it [1 Cor. People were not usually speaking in tongues or prophesying on their own, outside of the context of church. I get so many rude/negative comments after publishing a book about this topic. Philip Barton Payne, philip.b.payne@gmail.com. There is no comparable instance of any other manuscript of any of Paul's letters of a scribe rearranging Paul's argument with a significant block of text in this way. (Genesis 3:16b) Painful labour may be just one cause of a womanâs sorrows and sighs. However, almost all interpreters and commentators believe Gen 3:16a refers to pain and effort in labour rather than just sorrow over oneâs children. Good work especially Marg and John One arguement I hear a lot is that 1 Corinthians 11 is not talking about the context of church meetings. I’m glad you’re concerned for men. I love that God understands that women have such great power, influence, and wisdom even when they are seen as inferior culturally. I didnât have any pain in my first labour, and both labours â I have two sons â were shortish (6 1/2 and 4 hours) with no ill effects at all. 1 Corinthians 11:2 ff. Your form could not be submitted. Books and articles that equip you for deeply biblical thinking and ministry. You guys should check it out. Why all the contradictions? It is not clear, however, whether the things in parts b and c of Genesis 3:16 are directly caused by God, or whether Godâs statements reveal some consequences of sin. Itâs just what the Bible says, itâs not that insecure men canât handle being challenged by women. The question of sentence division: with what shall we connect the final clause of v. 33? From the quote by J.W. It will show that 1 Cor 14:34-35 has all the standard hallmarks of an interpolation. [My article on Submission here. 14:26-40 CSB. There is also no mention of a gender hierarchy in Genesis 1. For free downloads of the articles cited above and a description of my new book, Man and Woman, One in Christ: An Exegetical and Theological Study of Paul's Letters, that argues in detail on pages 217-67 from both external and internal, that 1 Cor 14:34-35 is an interpolation, see www.linguistsoftware.com/payneessays.htm. First Corinthians 14:34-35 should be excised from the text, according to various scholars (principally Straatman, Fitzer, Barrett, Ruef, Fee, and Payne). But even he was led into sin by his foreign wives. I read 1 Cor 14:34-35 as a quote from Corinth that is repudiated in v.36. I believe the quotation/refutation approach is the most sound and has the least supposition – here’s a great breakdown if you haven’t seen it yet: https://www.cbeinternational.org/resources/article/priscilla-papers/1-corinthians-1433b-38-pauline-quotation-refutation-device. But anthrÅpos is usually translated in English Bible as “man” because it sounds a bit weird to translate it as “human.”, Here’s an example from 1 Timothy 2:5 where anthrÅpos, which occurs twice, is translated as “human/humanity” compared with “man/men.” Is a Benevolent Patriarchy Good for God’s People? 14:34-35 is an interpolation (mostly looking at Gordon Fee's theories.) The only other manuscript of 1 Corinthians earlier than Codex Vaticanus containing 1 Cor 14:34-35 is P46. Jesus’ conversation with the Samaritan woman, which is rich in theology, is the longest conversation recorded in the New Testament. Lappidoth is the feminine plural of lappid which is usually translated as “torches” elsewhere in Judges and the OT (e.g. I selected “INTERPRETATIONS AND APPLICATIONS OF 1 CORINTHIANS 14:34-35” for a quick browse to see what may have been added over time. It simply states that it is a “shame” for them to speak at all. Osburn states that the text "does make sense if vv. . The Chiasm in 1 Corinthians 11:2-16 Did Miriam the prophetess only minister to women? In Genesis 3:16, God told Eve that her husband would rule her. Most women who have had good labours, like me, donât talk about it because of some womenâs horror stories. PASTOR HILLARY MOONGA ZAMBIA. Designed by Brugel Creative | © Margaret Mowczko, Exploring the biblical theology of Christian egalitarianism, should be silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but are to submit. Editorial Dilemma: The Interpolation of 1 Cor 14:34-35 in the Western Manuscripts of D, G and 88 May 2000 Biblical Theology Bulletin A Journal of Bible and Theology 30(2):68-74 These verses do not have anything to do with a hierarchy. I myself do plan on becoming a missionary, but I believe Paul wanted women to keep silent, as you can guess, for a reason. While the Bible does go on to say “wonderful” things about women in other places, I would tend to view this not as a rationalization for this verse, but a contradiction. What were you thinking! I’m ticking the box to get follow up comments. (More on this here.) Hmm. Scribes copying the manuscript later would naturally assume that the text in the margin was inadvertently omitted and so insert those verses into the text. Widows and divorced women could make vows without any man vetoing it. Marg Mowczko is an Australian theologian and writer. ), Your email address will not be published. Continue this work. 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 is an Interpolation [19] As noted, verses 34-35 sit uncomfortably within 1 Corinthians 14, both grammatically and hermeneutically. I mention some feminine metaphors recorded in the Bible in this article: https://margmowczko.com/is-god-male-or-masculine/. share. ], [25] The NIV 2011 translates 1 Corinthians 1:11 as: âMy brothers and sisters, some from Chloeâs household have informed me that there are quarrels among you.â The word âhouseholdâ has been added; it is not in the Greek text. Both men and women are children of God; we are brothers and sisters with Jesus as our older brother. And the oldest codices include 1 Cor 14:34-35 where modern translations show it (the same as the KJV translators, as it turns out). I find The Pulpit Commentaryâs comments very intestering, especially the one admitting that 1 Timothy 2:12 and 1 Corinthians 14:34 may have been about a specific time and circumstance. Whats wrong with just love? Thank you for sharing. 1 Cor 14:34-35 would be an interpolation if it was not originally in the text of 1 Corinthians but was added later in the margin. ( if preaching was your target, if it wasn’t, I still think all the major players in the church should be male, but again, there’s a fine line. The BDAG lexicon defines sorrow (lupÄ) as âpain of mind or spiritâ; and distress (stenagmos) as âan involuntary expression of great concern or stressâ. Thank You in advance. I don’t know if he was the son of God, I don’t know anything really. I’m a little confused about the “masculine gender” part in verse 36. either the beginning of the next paragraph: âAs in all the churches of the saints, women should be silent in the churchesâ (NRSV; cf. It is quite clear that this verse intends for women not to speak in church. 14:34 and even 1 Tim 2:12] as a rule made with special reference to time and circumstances, and obviously admitting of exceptions in both dispensations (Judges 4:4; 2 Kings 22:14; Nehemiah 6:14; Luke 2:36; Acts 2:17; Acts 21:9).” It is very helpful. Chrysostom believed that 1 Corinthians 14:36-38 applied to 14:34-35 only, showing that it was an important command, and that women must in submission. 34 Women [] should remain silent in the churches. And why (not)? The numbering of verses in the LXX is slightly different.). I’ll edit my sentence in the article to make it clearer that I’m referring to Greek grammar. This shouldnât surprise us. The next phrase clearly refers to childbirth: âin pains (from lupÄ) you will give birth to childrenâ. In that setting, personal vows sometimes had to be overturned and personal wishes denied. Consequently, we know that it was contrary to scribal convention for a scribe to take the liberty to change the order of Paul's argument simply because he thought a different ordering of the text would make better sense. It’s simply incorrect to say that God is masculine. He was not silencing women who were praying or prophesying (1 Cor. I do not regard these men as creeping at the edges of the Bible; the opposite is the case. . Seems strange to me, but do you have any thoughts or responses to that? By far the most likely candidate is a text that omitted verses 34-35. In my opinion, this is to be preferred to Christians who insist men and women are equal, but also insist women have a subordinate role. One encounters an axiom among the textual critics in the halls of academe regarding what are referred to as spurious passages : the more variants found among the manuscript witnesses to a particular passage, the more likely it is to be an interpolation. The Greek adjective monous, which occurs in verse 36 and means “only” or “alone”, is grammatically masculine. Sirach’s work is not part of the Hebrew Bible and is not included in Protestant Bibles. Numbers 30 does not say “women are not permitted to speak” or “women are to subject themselves” as it does in 1 Corinthians 14:34. The interpolation can be inferred from the following facts. Therefore, Gods design in eternity as well as presently is for male leadership in the highest governing roles of the church. 11:5). Thanks for contributing ! They are not allowed to speak out, but must place themselves in submission, as the oral law also says. Also, Agabus in Acts 21:10-12 did not prophesy in church, but to Paul. They treated them as intelligent and resourceful human beings. Genesis 3:16a And [God] said to the woman, âI will greatly multiply your sorrows/pains and your sighs/groans . 14:35). I appreciate that you spent the time to go over that! They do also, need male rulegivers to keep them from becoming reckless livers. Thus, even though the distigmai in Codex Vaticanus may either add credibility to the originality of a passage, as in the case of John 7:53-8:11, or cast doubt on the originality of a passage, as in the case of 1 Cor 14:34-35, their overall impact is to affirm the reliability of the transmission of the NT text. I will throw in my 2 cents and say Grudem’s position is the most accurate, what isn’t mentioned in the article and that he states in his systematic theology book which is a great read btw, is that The culture of ancient Israel was patriarchal. Hi Marg! Other passages of scripture in the Hebrew Bible (the Old Testament) also show that men had more authority than women. 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 Modern English Version (MEV) For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. However, although interpolation of 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 is a possibility, the fact that these verses appear in every manuscript, and the Western manuscripts which place them in a different position are considered less reliable, has made it impossible so far to demonstrate interpolation on ⦠Conclusion. Not hers! Now here’s where I tie it all together. In its application, I would like to add that I believe this passage is also perhaps referring back to previous instructions in the same letter, particularly in Paul’s instructions for the use of freedom in Christ to be a servant in order to influence others. Additionally, the fact the Priscilla and Aquila took Apollos to their home to explain baptism could maybe mean that a woman could prophesy in her home to a specific person if she had a message for them, and there would still be concern for how she looks while doing it since she would be with another person. I have no argument with submission. 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